Mod Updates
Re: Mod Updates
Defenses are quiet weak. The biggest change I don't like is how strong chameleon has become and more mobile. A direct phase shifter hit does less damage (if any at all) than when a chameleon hits with a sniper shot on a titan. This makes no sense. That shield needs to be nerfed.
DaRk{OZ}
[FAQ] - Frequently Asked Questions
[FAQ] - Frequently Asked Questions
Re: Mod Updates
The intention of this latest patch was to put an end to being able to easily hide inside your base with so much defense at the door that nobody can get in the entire map. I really wanted to change the focus of the mod back to player vs player and away from player vs. defense. It's OK if a few flags get captured for a change. It's also no secret that armors other than Titan are getting useful again. Keep in mind that Chameleon and Necromancer shields are energy based. So for example shooting a shielded player with a Phase Disruptor first before bringing down their energy would probably not be a very good tactic because you will be reloading for a long time while they shoot back, but knocking them around easily with the Rocket Launcher first would probably do the trick.
Re: Mod Updates
Knocking them around in the rocket launcher is pointless outside, as you knock them away from you and thus the advantage goes to them as it reenergizes their shield quickly because they have momentum given to them and they don't require boost to get away. Same with trying to phase them. They can also more easily change their trajectory with the new changes and are harder to hit than larger armors. Titans lose their shield when rocket jumping and it does not replenish nearly as fast. I can easily wreck any armor with chameleon and the new changes (which I have). I'm okay with it having a shield, just think it needs to be nerfed somewhat. In my opinion there should be an option to lower their shield outdoors as any explosive damage is useless. Chameleons have options to lower shields against titans, what do titans have that does not give an advantage to chameleon (that doesn't put distance between you)? Like if OS launcher took their shield away for a moment if hit by at least blast damage. Or minimize the shield a bit so a direct hit from the phase took the shield and 20% life for example. I just think adjustments can be made to balance it a bit. Right now chamaleon has the advantage. Angel doesn't stand much of a chance against chameleon now because of the shield. I have shown this to Owner several times.
Last edited by DaRk on Mon May 01, 2017 8:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
DaRk{OZ}
[FAQ] - Frequently Asked Questions
[FAQ] - Frequently Asked Questions
Re: Mod Updates
I agree with DaRk and Owner. Chameleons might as well be invisible, because they're always hovering around the back of my head like angels, sniping me, and if I do manage to get a direct hit on them with a phase disrupter, they just get shoved away while continuing to snipe me. Same with Necros. The shield beacons are too powerful in the hands of armors with so much energy.
I do like the defense nerf, though... Except the fact that sensors take several particle beams to kill. I'd like most base objects to be as strong (and shielded) as plasma turrets, but shieldless when not powered.
I do like the defense nerf, though... Except the fact that sensors take several particle beams to kill. I'd like most base objects to be as strong (and shielded) as plasma turrets, but shieldless when not powered.
Re: Mod Updates
I do agree that base assets are a bit on the strong side now. I don't even bother taking down gens as a necro anymore because it just takes too long with the weapons I have.
Cham shield is strong. It could use a nerf or possible energy drain over time. And it may just be me, but I find moving around as a Cham with this extra mobility a bit...odd. It didn't really need a movement buff, imo.
Cham shield is strong. It could use a nerf or possible energy drain over time. And it may just be me, but I find moving around as a Cham with this extra mobility a bit...odd. It didn't really need a movement buff, imo.
Re: Mod Updates
I see what you mean and I agree that something still needs to change to balance it better for outdoor use. When I originally changed the Necromancer and Chameleon beacons away from invisibility I knew that it would take some time to find a suitable replacement because almost everyone used that beacon skill passively, always having invisibility active while in one of those two armors. Changing it to a shield beacon that functioned exactly the same way (set and forget) was simply the easiest thing to do which also already existed in the mod.DaRk wrote:Knocking them around in the rocket launcher is pointless outside, as you knock them away from you and thus the advantage goes to them as it reenergizes their shield quickly because they have momentum given to them and they don't require boost to get away. Same with trying to phase them. They can also more easily change their trajectory with the new changes and are harder to hit than larger armors. Titans lose their shield when rocket jumping and it does not replenish nearly as fast. I can easily wreck any armor with chameleon and the new changes (which I have). I'm okay with it having a shield, just think it needs to be nerfed somewhat. In my opinion there should be an option to lower their shield outdoors as any explosive damage is useless. Chameleons have options to lower shields against titans, what do titans have that does not give an advantage to chameleon (that doesn't put distance between you)? Like if OS launcher took their shield away for a moment if hit by at least blast damage. Or minimize the shield a bit so a direct hit from the phase took the shield and 20% life for example. I just think adjustments can be made to balance it a bit. Right now chamaleon has the advantage. Angel doesn't stand much of a chance against chameleon now because of the shield. I have shown this to Owner several times.
I really like how it turned out balance-wise for infiltrating the enemy base in those two armors and that was the main intention aside from removing invisible sniping, but I agree that it's really not ideal to let them have shielding in almost every other situation outdoors and while flag capturing. It's not easy to think of a blanket solution considering how many different roles those armors can be used for, but I really want to get the beacons for all of the armors to a place where people feel that they are useful.
The reason I made the base sensors so much stronger this patch was because I noticed that they would be destroyed almost right away when a match began and then never repaired. They tend to be placed on the top of the bases or in the most vulnerable spot possible where you really cannot repair them without being sniped so basically every map was being played without a working base sensor and the deployable ones do not have anything close to the same detecting range. It was bad enough that a Titan could one shot them from across the map, but also to have every other armor be able to sneeze on them to knock them out was really making them useless and that's a shame because having them active can really help your team defend.perrinoia wrote:I agree with DaRk and Owner. Chameleons might as well be invisible, because they're always hovering around the back of my head like angels, sniping me, and if I do manage to get a direct hit on them with a phase disrupter, they just get shoved away while continuing to snipe me. Same with Necros. The shield beacons are too powerful in the hands of armors with so much energy.
I do like the defense nerf, though... Except the fact that sensors take several particle beams to kill. I'd like most base objects to be as strong (and shielded) as plasma turrets, but shieldless when not powered.
I increased the run speed and jump height of Chameleons so that the Chameleon pack would be a little more useful while indoors in an enemy base. There were a lot of times where if you needed to get up a ledge or to another story while trying to be a Chameleon you had to use so much of your energy to fly up there that you would run out of it and be detected and killed instantly by laser turrets and that role is already covered by the deployable cats. It was also a little nod to players who like to snipe outdoors and really didn't like losing invisibility. A titan may be able to one shot you with the particle beam, but they will have to be able to hit you first.Fixious wrote:I do agree that base assets are a bit on the strong side now. I don't even bother taking down gens as a necro anymore because it just takes too long with the weapons I have.
Cham shield is strong. It could use a nerf or possible energy drain over time. And it may just be me, but I find moving around as a Cham with this extra mobility a bit...odd. It didn't really need a movement buff, imo.
There's really only so many ways you can attempt to create balance against a weapon like the particle beam and maybe I took it too far, but I've also heard from players that this was a buff patch for titans because of how easy they can snipe defense now so
Re: Mod Updates
But Titans are supposed to be powerful... That's the whole point of the heavy class.
You didn't really make any changes to the heavy armors themselves, but changed the rest of the game so much that using heavy armors has become completely asinine.
One chameleon or necromancer can run circles around an entire team of heavies and shred them to pieces now.
Light armors should be designed for skilled, sneaky players. Heavy armors should be designed for noobs and players who live on a boat and pickup whatever shitty WiFi signal they can, thus need to be able to take damage and dish it back out without the need for accuracy.
Personally, I mostly use the particle beam for raping bases, as it doesn't require ammo and is pretty much the only weapon in the mod that can destroy sunken barriers beyond turret range. The rest of the time, I'm rocket jumping over and shitting phase disrupters on my targets.
As for the sensor buff... Yes, it was easy to destroy them, and yes, it was difficult to repair them, and yes, they do provide a tactical advantage when operational...
However, I find that teams who sprinkle deployable sensors around the map always know where to find me, and I find it difficult to spot the silly little things.
Here's a healthy compromise. What if base sensors were as strong as base plasma turrets, and shielded... AND deployable sensors had a larger range?
As for those god awful light armor shield beacons, how bout we replace them with something more suited to those classes?
I've scripted two awesome abilities that I think could fit nicely...
What if Chameleon's beacon was a concussion grenade that could knock enemies unconscious for a few seconds? It wouldn't be a guaranteed knockout... Damage value should be greater than (max damage - damage level + shield strength) to have any effect at all. A knocked out player would be forced to observe themselves while they play a death animation and drop their mounted items, but would still be capable of taking damage and would regain consciousness within a few seconds. This ability would be like the offspring of an orgy between jailgun, disarm, and stasis, but without all of the annoying glitches that we've had to fix over the years, and I think it would be pretty balanced right out of the gate.
What if necromancer's beacon was my astral projection script? It's like knocking yourself out, but instead of observing yourself in 3rd person and dropping your mounted items, you can freely roam the map in observer mode for up to 4 seconds. Jump to wake up where you fell without wasting a beacon, or trigger to teleport your body to your observer camera position. A deploy check would be performed prior to teleportation to prevent you from materializing in a wall, which would make you jump awake if failed without costing you a beacon.
I've tested both of these scripts in my mod, and haven't found any ways to glitch them other than sneaking underground, which necromancer can already do. So you'd have to make function remotebuy and function remotebuyfavorites return false if observer mode equals astral plane or unconscious to prevent players from sleep buying.
Since both of these abilities and getting killed all use the client's observer mode variable, these abilities cannot be glitched by dying in your sleep.
If these ideas sound good to the community, I'll be happy to implement them in a few days.
You didn't really make any changes to the heavy armors themselves, but changed the rest of the game so much that using heavy armors has become completely asinine.
One chameleon or necromancer can run circles around an entire team of heavies and shred them to pieces now.
Light armors should be designed for skilled, sneaky players. Heavy armors should be designed for noobs and players who live on a boat and pickup whatever shitty WiFi signal they can, thus need to be able to take damage and dish it back out without the need for accuracy.
Personally, I mostly use the particle beam for raping bases, as it doesn't require ammo and is pretty much the only weapon in the mod that can destroy sunken barriers beyond turret range. The rest of the time, I'm rocket jumping over and shitting phase disrupters on my targets.
As for the sensor buff... Yes, it was easy to destroy them, and yes, it was difficult to repair them, and yes, they do provide a tactical advantage when operational...
However, I find that teams who sprinkle deployable sensors around the map always know where to find me, and I find it difficult to spot the silly little things.
Here's a healthy compromise. What if base sensors were as strong as base plasma turrets, and shielded... AND deployable sensors had a larger range?
As for those god awful light armor shield beacons, how bout we replace them with something more suited to those classes?
I've scripted two awesome abilities that I think could fit nicely...
What if Chameleon's beacon was a concussion grenade that could knock enemies unconscious for a few seconds? It wouldn't be a guaranteed knockout... Damage value should be greater than (max damage - damage level + shield strength) to have any effect at all. A knocked out player would be forced to observe themselves while they play a death animation and drop their mounted items, but would still be capable of taking damage and would regain consciousness within a few seconds. This ability would be like the offspring of an orgy between jailgun, disarm, and stasis, but without all of the annoying glitches that we've had to fix over the years, and I think it would be pretty balanced right out of the gate.
What if necromancer's beacon was my astral projection script? It's like knocking yourself out, but instead of observing yourself in 3rd person and dropping your mounted items, you can freely roam the map in observer mode for up to 4 seconds. Jump to wake up where you fell without wasting a beacon, or trigger to teleport your body to your observer camera position. A deploy check would be performed prior to teleportation to prevent you from materializing in a wall, which would make you jump awake if failed without costing you a beacon.
I've tested both of these scripts in my mod, and haven't found any ways to glitch them other than sneaking underground, which necromancer can already do. So you'd have to make function remotebuy and function remotebuyfavorites return false if observer mode equals astral plane or unconscious to prevent players from sleep buying.
Since both of these abilities and getting killed all use the client's observer mode variable, these abilities cannot be glitched by dying in your sleep.
If these ideas sound good to the community, I'll be happy to implement them in a few days.
Re: Mod Updates
I think the Chameleon beacon idea is pretty good and we should try it. I'm on the fence with the Necromancer one because it sounds like a replacement for Ghost pack which I don't want to see removed or changed, but how would having both Ghost pack and another ability like that at the same time play out I wonder. What I like about the Ghost pack is that you can be speeding through the air and turn it on and jump through walls and continue with your momentum. It has a huge skill ceiling because you can learn some really crazy routes through the bases. Having to basically stop and slowly teleport to the other side of a wall just doesn't do it for me. It sounds like it would be similar to if you phase shift where you come out the other side standing still.
Also base sensors are shielded already. If you knock out the power they are already much easier to destroy. The shield strength was raised with this latest patch as well as the overall health. Builder grenades for example should help bring down the base sensors because you are shocking the shield strength and then all you have to do is put in enough damage.
Also base sensors are shielded already. If you knock out the power they are already much easier to destroy. The shield strength was raised with this latest patch as well as the overall health. Builder grenades for example should help bring down the base sensors because you are shocking the shield strength and then all you have to do is put in enough damage.
Re: Mod Updates
Correct.... While Astral Plane doesn't actually effect your momentum at all, your body will very likely come to a stop during your 4 second slumber. Also, observer cameras can't move very far in 4 seconds... You can definitely move faster in a conscious state than that.
For those 2 reasons, Some people may still prefer phase shifter (which can teleport 3-4 times further, but typically not through walls), or ghost pack (which retains momentum unless you get yourself stuck in a wall, but kills you if used too long).
I am also curious how they'll work together, since this idea would replace a beacon rather than a pack. I don't imagine that ghost+astral would be very useful, but shifter+astral definitely would.
Imagine playing broadsides. You phase shift across the map then up to the back of the enemy base where you hope no one will take advantage of your lifeless body. You astral plane through the wall and roam the enemy base for up to 4 seconds at a time, scouting to see where all of the turrets and players are without wasting any beacons until you find the best place to teleport in and finally use a beacon. Then someone spawns right next to you and ammo dumps on your sneaky ass anyway.
Another idea I toyed with for astral plane was switching places with other players... Shifter does this by selecting the one object in your cross hair, but astral plane doesn't work that way, so instead I'd use the deploy check method and grab any number of players inside the box and move them all relevant to the camera and your body's position (with another deploy check for each player to prevent them from getting stuck in walls. With this ability, you could scout the enemy base for the scuttled flag carrier and teleport them outside.
For those 2 reasons, Some people may still prefer phase shifter (which can teleport 3-4 times further, but typically not through walls), or ghost pack (which retains momentum unless you get yourself stuck in a wall, but kills you if used too long).
I am also curious how they'll work together, since this idea would replace a beacon rather than a pack. I don't imagine that ghost+astral would be very useful, but shifter+astral definitely would.
Imagine playing broadsides. You phase shift across the map then up to the back of the enemy base where you hope no one will take advantage of your lifeless body. You astral plane through the wall and roam the enemy base for up to 4 seconds at a time, scouting to see where all of the turrets and players are without wasting any beacons until you find the best place to teleport in and finally use a beacon. Then someone spawns right next to you and ammo dumps on your sneaky ass anyway.
Another idea I toyed with for astral plane was switching places with other players... Shifter does this by selecting the one object in your cross hair, but astral plane doesn't work that way, so instead I'd use the deploy check method and grab any number of players inside the box and move them all relevant to the camera and your body's position (with another deploy check for each player to prevent them from getting stuck in walls. With this ability, you could scout the enemy base for the scuttled flag carrier and teleport them outside.