base drama

[Wise Man]

Shift, I should mention that the sensors ONLY displayed the range indicators underneath the enemies if they were moving. The coding on the sensor was quite simple, and is basically a very large, fancy motion sensor that simply places a team-owned beacon at the base of the player to give an indicator and range. Thus, if a player stands still, they can be undetectable by that sensor. On the other hand, you got to ask, "Is it more important to know what the enemy is doing when they're on the move? Or Not?" The point is my own personal experience with HM and that satellite sensor are almost identical.

The one in nukeville was a small camera.dts shape that deployed 100m above the terrain directly above the player, and pointed down to face the ground. The one in annihilation will need to be different. Until more support is garnered for the deployable, I'm not really wanting to speculate potential designs for it though, but I have some in mind already for good fair play. In any case, on a less serious note, I believe it should be called "Un-Happy Sensor" with comments on the screen saying, "Let's level the playing field shall we, hackers?" The deployable will be one of the most unique things to be in the tribes mods since it was in nukeville really. It serves as a means to an end to allow a chance for non-cheaters to equalize the field against the 1.4/1.41 hackers. It allows the strength of the teams to decide who keeps their HM sensors live, and who doesn't. Ultimately, the power that's provided by the cheat is distributed fairly among all players.

Then, once we have it in the mod, begin to look at all of the other familiar features tribes now features with other modern fps games. This need for players to have an awareness of enemy positions is reflected in many different games. In CoD, for example, there are deployables that allow the team to see enemy positions on the map (Hudbot, duh?). There's even deployables that let you see the physical location of the character, in red! (HM+OGL Hacks, INGAME!). They're not considered cheats there are they? (No.) They're quite desirable features in the game, really. This modernization of the TRIBES experience may actually pull in and attract new players, while ALSO rectifying issues that old vets may have had in the past due to the HM drama, or the other hax and slash tribes nonsense. With old vets likely to return with the HM drama dead (or psuedo-allowed legally in game), and newcomers being introduced to a game that's more newbie friendly, the ultimate effect should be the preservation or expansion of the Tribes 1 community. Wouldn't we all like to see growth in player counts on our servers again? I know "legalizing HM" seems like a bad way to go for some of you, but what I'm posting here is an idea that may end this ridiculous witch hunt that only serves to further destroy our little community. Veterans, you're gonna have to remember you know how to not be door sniped by a noob that might be camping, and it is your obligation as an experienced T1 player to not be a noob and door camp. (With this update in the mod, I'd personally kick for such behavior, since it can be such a deterrant from a good gaming experience. This is where admins come in, people.). New players will have to remember that veterans romp their ass because they are veterans, and it is not the hacks or the pre-leads (which are free to everyone now... who's faster on the PB aim now sucka? Fates of titan duels will now be decided in milliseconds of time, so you better know how to move your fat ass out of the base.)

Community: Discuss!

Wise Ass: Out!

[S_hift]

I'm entirely against the idea of anything like this in the server, I'm not gonna let you sugar coat it.

[Wise Man]

Please explain why... Your viewpoints may be shared among other people, so it'd be nice to look at them.

After all, if there's a reason why we should continue ineffective approaches to the HM issues (such as relying on good faith in admins, or silly, never-ending, pointless, and failing basement software development wares) then we need to a hear them

[DaJ4ck3L]

too much to read tonight. i read tomorrow, and give thoughts.

and fuck man, that's like an essay wise lol.

[S_hift]

First off wise, punctuation. use it like this. Thank you.

Any form of hm whether It's built into the mod or a clientside hack will be bad for the longevity of this mod/edit. The biggest factor being that there are too many insta-kill weapons, or weapons with high damage output.

When I say that you're sugar coating it I really mean that. You're trying to make the idea seem more appealing to those whom would obviously really like that idea of a built in happy mod. Thats just another way of trying to make it seem like "oh its ok because everyones using"

We are not TROC FAGGOTS we don't do that shit.




The biggest reason why happymod is starting to become a problem is because a year went by and not a single person was kicked for using it, no matter how blatantly. Another reason is because no one was good enough to have actually gotten kicked even IF they were using it. When you elect a crew of administrators and you personally tell them to ease up on these people, you create an individual who just doesn't know when to hit that tab button combo.

In retrospect the people who have been openly cheating for the past year or so are just slowing and surely building up the pace. They're searching for that threshold of how far they can push it until someone says or does something.


This isn't about me being admin, I could personally give a fuck and I wouldn't want to give a fuck. I would rather trash their base so they can't even use the station. However the admins need to keep a watchful eye out for the people who break and ruin good games. They need to be more knowledgeable in their actions so that they do not kick someone who really knows how to play the mod.

No one needs to be banned at this point, we can all agree on that. Someone using hm like Kal-El for example do need to be booted from the server until they figure out that they are not allowed to cheat. people like that do it simply because they think everyone else is doing it.

solution: dedicated, and responsible admins on a VERY short leash. One unjustified kick or punishment and their administration privileges will be taken away. This will keep the admins from developing a god complex like bo'sdad.

ps: I'm not gonna make my point any clearer than it already is right now, just for the sheer sake of your own pointless banter.

[Wise Man]

Sorry Crow but this is not about to get any shorter on post length

Any form of hm whether It's built into the mod or a clientside hack will be bad for the longevity of this mod/edit. The biggest factor being that there are too many insta-kill weapons, or weapons with high damage output.

This is the first point I'd like to address. I had some time to think about what possibly might be a rectification for the balance issues that may come about from proposed camping. I've initially considered that weakening sniper weapons like the particle beam and rail (not chammy currently) might be a fair thing with such an update. There definitely can be a balance issue with our current weapons, and avoiding that type of "instant death circumstance" at the door of the base is kind of the reason HM was annoying to begin with.

Never forget, the best of us can door camp without HM. So, to your point shift, there is not a good compatibility for the weapons that are currently in the mod for such a feature. On the other hand, it's not the HM, or the weapons themselves that make the situations undesirable to play against. That's like saying guns are evil because they kill people. HM isn't evil and neither is the satellite turrets. It's the players that choose to use that information in that way that could easily be dealt with a swift tab action.

When I say that you're sugar coating it I really mean that. You're trying to make the idea seem more appealing to those whom would obviously really like that idea of a built in happy mod. Thats just another way of trying to make it seem like "oh its ok because everyones using"

We are not TROC FAGGOTS we don't do that shit.

You are correct. We are “Not” TROC faggots. We are smarter, better-adjusted grown ass men with too much time on our hands and we need to get to some fucking agreement.
I understand what my arguments may "appear" to be S_hift. On the other hand, the crux of this whole debate isn't about why I feel HM should be justified, the point is to discuss a viable solution to the end of the problem. Period. I understand that looking at the uglier perspectives of this issue may not be easy for you, or for others, but I'm bringing it up because I don’t want this community to be dealing with this issue anymore. It’s sickening that after all of these years nothing’s been done about a major issue.
The years of hatred amongst tribesplayers are retarded. I understand it’s no different anywhere else, but this is a tight-knit community now. Why in the hell is there so much hate? If it weren't for the fact that a large portion of the remaining players are my friends who I care about as human beings, I wouldn't be posting this stuff. I want a fun gaming experience with lots of people. So do other players of Tribes. These types of discussions NEED to happen if any of that is to happen. That is why I post this. I’m sorry if it looks pointless to you.
In any case, the next point…

The biggest reason why happymod is starting to become a problem is because a year went by and not a single person was kicked for using it, no matter how blatantly. Another reason is because no one was good enough to have actually gotten kicked even IF they were using it. When you elect a crew of administrators and you personally tell them to ease up on these people, you create an individual who just doesn't know when to hit that tab button combo.
In retrospect the people who have been openly cheating for the past year or so are just slowing and surely building up the pace. They're searching for that threshold of how far they can push it until someone says or does something.

Shift, I honestly feel like it’s very difficult for admins to enforce rules that are inconsistent or can’t actually be enforced. You can’t expect people (admins are people yanno) to morally justify to themselves WHY they should enforce a rule if they themselves realize there is NO sound justification for it. You are correct in the sense that the leadership solutions provided for the TRIBES annihilation servers has been lackluster in an approach to dealing with HM. That is undeniable.
This merely reflects the lack of an effective means to enforce rules. A governing body is NOT a governing body without an effective means of upholding it’s own laws. The fact of the matter is that TRIBES’ current leadership community has failed (and is STILL failing) to reach a reasonable conclusion. Discussions like these, and however pointless you may think they are, are exactly what goes on in “real” leadership conferences, board meetings, and committees.
We’re all adults. There’s “no” reason why we can’t act like it and have open discussion and proactive approaches to issues. My attempts to bring this up will hopefully cause other people to become engaged in trying to find a solution.

ps: I'm not gonna make my point any clearer than it already is right now, just for the sheer sake of your own pointless banter.

If you want to call it pointless banter, that's fine, but I'm not sure if I can make my points any more clearer either Shift. I dedicated 10+ years of my life to this game. So have others. How can you blatantly ignore my concerns for the community as well just because YOU dont like it?

Again, none of this is personal. You know you my bruh , but I'm working to support more than just my personal interests and your personal interests. I'm working for the "community's" interest. That's bigger than us, period. The community will live on a HM-threatened world no matter what, so why not go about finding a way that literally makes the majority happy, even if it's at your own expense? Are you going to quit Tribes altogether and go? Is that how you show that you care?

In either case, HM destroyed Tribes 1. It should've never been made.

[D4M45T3R]

so why isnt 1.41 enforced already?

[S_hift]

Maybe we need to just stop rewarding shitty behavior? The stats system is clearly the perfect reward system. Maybe we could harness it to encourage the interaction of legitimate play?



Crow could easily patch the server to 1.2, which in turn would block HM for 1.20 users while allowing them to use net settings.

Then he could add the detection scripts that will ONLY auto kick if using HM.DLL and the Troc mem.dll

-Players using 1.20 and 1.41 would be detected by the server and would be rewarded with no penalties to score or stat records.

-Players using 1.20 and the mem.dll (troc) aka hacked mem.dll would face an autokick and a point loss of 50% for a week after every match AND stat tracks being erased.

-Players using 1.40 could be penalized by not having their stats tracked at all

-Players using HM.DLL will face an autokick and a point loss of 50% for a week after every match AND stat tracks being erased entirely.



I guarantee that the server will remain HM protected for an entire year until someone from the BaseLT community releases a bypass.


Ps. I think this is the best idea I've ever had if I may say so myself.

[Erowid]

Shift, is my 1.4 config able to be converted to 1.41 with netset???
if so, then I dig your idea

[SGT ROCK]

A Very interesting read... good points abound. It's good to see the banter/debate and interest in keepin on, you both care deeply enough to work on the problem. Kudos

I like Wise's "final solution" plan but I'm unsure of the final result. Which sounds to me like everyone gets HM automatically. Player indicator will show through hills walls etc. no one can hide (unless standing still, could lead to camping but standing still very long is certain death using PB)

At first it seems like radar, which is part of the game and you can take out the radar, likewise with the Wise solution. But when the HM radar is down then HM users still reign, so it's their first target and it stays down most of the time, perhaps. I question if this doesn't take away a part of the game that a lot of players use and love and that's knowing they can evade detection and sneak behind things. This isn't a sim and we don't have jetpacks in RL but some basic adherence to RL physics is part of the game, perhaps a big part.

Shift- Isn't your idea a LOT like what happened to that other server you eluded to in another thread TW or ??? You were saying it was back to 1998 with the drama. They also went with version limited play... just sayin.

At any rate .. I've never even tried HM, I've seen vids with it on Youtube. You don't go buy a console game and instantly look up cheats for it on the internet. WTF is the sense in that, play the damn game.. many hours have been spent to make it a challenge and yet fair and balanced in some cases. The "WIN" is in solving it yourself... Skill is something earned... Sometimes we don't play to our full potential and sometimes we are "on it" and in the zone. It's what you put into it and feel like putting into it at times. You can evade radar behind a hill and so HM is a true cheat on design of the game. IMHO I still jump a bit at times when I turn around and an enemy is right there, it's part of the thrill of the game. HM Users are HM LOSERS

Wise's approach is a new idea as far as I know and it's good to see that. I'm not sure it's the answer but it's really good to see some work in that area. Shift's is also thought worthy. Love to see something worked out in the long run...

Crow I hope you get to feeling better man ! Happy Holidays all !